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NItrogen vs Helium and Exit bag vs Mask

"Camus & Nietzsche"
06.08.2010 - 22:06
Hi All,

First off, let me just say I'm not an expert on this; and I welcome
any discussion about this method.

I know final exit recommends the helium + exit bag technique - however
it seems like it was just chosen because it's easy to obtain the bag,
helium, tank, and tubing they recommend, not necessarily because it's
better. I may be wrong but it seems a lot could go wrong with the way
they recommend going as well. A small tear in the bag could let most
of the helium escape, and air would be drawn in from the bottom of the
bag (even with a rubberband over the neck + tubing because of the
small gap there). And the lungs weren't meant to breathe a gas with
such a low density, I would expect people hyperventilating because the
lungs will react to low density air by increasing the respiratory rate
(to maintain the minute volume) - I don't think this would induce
panic however, but it is abnormal breathing.

Is there any benefit to using helium over nitrogen (other than quick
dispersal, so others stay safe)? Nitrogen is much easier for me to
obtain (the gas/welding shop is just a few blocks away) - and nitrogen
costs next to nothing (the cylinder is about $90 though). Plus the
ungs naturally breathe nitrogen everyday in large quantity - whereas
helium is a foreign gas to the lungs in large quantity. Also,
nitrogen does not easily disperse in air, and so keeps near the face
during normal breathing.

Also, total non-rebreather masks are made for 100% concentration, or
very near 100% - adding duct tape to the mix seems like it would keep
the mask in place and affixed to the face, also the duct tape can be
used to close off the safety vents (if present) if desired, so that
once the gas is off surrounding air won't easily enter the mask. I
have pretty bad claustrophobia and a bag over my head seems like it
would increase the terror level - even with a brimmed hat - the fear
stems from not seeing my surroundings and having my face so close to
the material.

I would be using an oxygen regulator with an adapter for the nitrogen
tank, this would limit the flow to something reasonable (15 LPM, about
average volume/minute for someone who smokes/has respiratory problems,
normal people breathe approx 12 LPM) - it works with nitrogen just
like oxygen because the diaphragm in the regulator works on volume and
pressure, not on density - you can look up info online about using
oxygen regulators for different gases (trimix, regular air, etc).

For the helium method the flow rate seems like it is poorly regulated
- depending on the valve you could be out of gas pretty quick, unless
you do the T fitting + another tank, still poorly regulated though.

From my reading, a nurse at a nursing home accidentally hooked up an
oxygen tank (which had mistakenly been filled with nitrogen) to the
home's gas distribution panel and killed several people. The people
killed were wearing normal oxygen masks, with openings - the nitrogen
crowded out the air around their faces, and lowered the oxygen
concentration to less than a few percent - making death quick.

Anyhow, I'm open to criticism - and welcome any ideas you have which
might help. Thanks!

"Peter Pan"
06.08.2010 - 22:55
"Camus & Nietzsche" <email@anonym; wrote in message
news:email@anonym...


Anyhow, I'm open to criticism - and welcome any ideas you have which
might help. Thanks!



you may want to look at why you die.... it's not the gas that kills/poisons
you, it's the lack of oxygen in what you breathe... sometimes it's called
dry drowning... essentially you lose consciousness pretty quick, but it
takes awhile for the brain to actually die... think of it like wet drowning,
no oxygen in water, just like when you drown, you lose consciosness pretty
quick when you first go underwater and can't breathe, but you arent brain
dead for a while longer (why artificial respiration can be given to someone
when they drown/can be revived, if done before brain death occurs)

main difference is with inert gas, you can still breathe/but no oxygen in
what you breathe, exit bag/no air leaks keeps air (with oxygen) from getting
into the stuff you breathe (like from air leaks in fittings/tubing/rips in
bags/etc...

in your case doesn't much matter which gas you use helium/nitrogen (there
are actually six inert gases), as long as there is no air/oxygen leaking
in.... ergo how to do it so no oxygen/air gets mixed in with what you
breathe...

consider looking/learning at how/why you actually die, and then consider how
air (with oxygen) can leak in to what you propose....


"Camus & Nietzsche"
07.08.2010 - 00:08
consider looking/learning at how/why you actually die, and then consider how
air (with oxygen) can leak in to what you propose....

That's exactly it, the system is completely closed - no gaps for
regular air to leak in (provided the mask stays tight against the
skin, such as with duct tape). I know nitrogen is not poisonous or
toxic - it's an asphyxiant gas - of which there are many. The total
non-rebreather mask has a reservoir bag that collects gas from the
regulator, and a one way valve to the mask that opens when pressure in
the mask is less than the pressure in the reservoir - and another one
way valve to let exhaled gases escape when the pressure in the mask is
greater than atmospheric pressure. This creates a system where only
the gas from the regulator is inhaled, and most (if not all) gases
exhaled are released to the atmosphere. Some masks have a safety
valve that opens if the pressure in the mask is much much lower than
the atmospheric pressure (conceivably so when you run out of pressure
in the reservoir bag the mask allows regular air to enter the
system). The safety vent is easily bypassed with a little duct tape
to hold it closed. This is why total non-rebreathers are used for
people requiring a very high concentration of oxygen.

Also, during hypoxia/anoxia typically one loses consciousness within
minutes - followed by brain death within about 7 to 10 minutes (for a
normal person). When I say brain death I mean an EEG would be
isoelectric (flat). If an opiod drug or a benzodiazepine is used it
can take up to an hour for death to occur because of the decrease in
respiration. Some of this I gleaned from the AVMA euthanasia guide -
some from various other sources. I would have enough oxygen from my
36 cu. ft. cylinder to last roughly 70 minutes (just over 1000L, at a
rate of 15 LPM) - more than enough if I'm not sedated.

I first got this idea about nitrogen from watching "How to kill a
Human Being" from the BBC show Horizons.

testtimony
07.08.2010 - 01:18
On 7 aoBt, 00:08, "Camus & Nietzsche" <4n0n7m0...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
The total
non-rebreather mask has a reservoir bag that collects gas from the
regulator, and a one way valve to the mask that opens when pressure in
the mask is less than the pressure in the reservoir - and another one
way valve to let exhaled gases escape when the pressure in the mask is
greater than atmospheric pressure. 0This creates a system where only
the gas from the regulator is inhaled, and most (if not all) gases
exhaled are released to the atmosphere. 0Some masks have a safety
valve that opens if the pressure in the mask is much much lower than
the atmospheric pressure (conceivably so when you run out of pressure
in the reservoir bag the mask allows regular air to enter the
system). 0The safety vent is easily bypassed with a little duct tape
to hold it closed. 0This is why total non-rebreathers are used for
people requiring a very high concentration of oxygen.

Thanks to have explained even if I don't get everything. Maybe it's a
silly question but what about the constant flow delivered by the
tank ? How is it managed by the mask ? In the reservoir ?

For the NItrogen vs Helium, it's clearly the nitrogen that wins. It's
intended to succeed to the helium in the Nitschke's movement because
of detection of helium in forensics.

As for the other question, Exit bag vs Mask, I still have no idea. But
you seem to have studied the question, so your idea is maybe the best.

Ma Rodder
07.08.2010 - 01:37
On Aug 6, 4:180pm, testtimony <testtim...@hotmail.fr> wrote:
On 7 aoBt, 00:08, "Camus & Nietzsche" <4n0n7m0...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> The total
> non-rebreather mask has a reservoir bag that collects gas from the
> regulator, and a one way valve to the mask that opens when pressure in
> the mask is less than the pressure in the reservoir - and another one
> way valve to let exhaled gases escape when the pressure in the mask is
> greater than atmospheric pressure. 0This creates a system where only
> the gas from the regulator is inhaled, and most (if not all) gases
> exhaled are released to the atmosphere. 0Some masks have a safety
> valve that opens if the pressure in the mask is much much lower than
> the atmospheric pressure (conceivably so when you run out of pressure
> in the reservoir bag the mask allows regular air to enter the
> system). 0The safety vent is easily bypassed with a little duct tape
> to hold it closed. 0This is why total non-rebreathers are used for
> people requiring a very high concentration of oxygen.

Thanks to have explained even if I don't get everything. Maybe it's a
silly question but what about the constant flow delivered by the
tank ? How is it managed by the mask ? In the reservoir ?

For the NItrogen vs Helium, it's clearly the nitrogen that wins. It's
intended to succeed to the helium in the Nitschke's movement because
of detection of helium in forensics.

As for the other question, Exit bag vs Mask, I still have no idea. But
you seem to have studied the question, so your idea is maybe the best.

how does the gas get into your mask? i have heard for 1 case of mask
being used specially. i am not familiar with the type of mask you are
talking about though>
can you provide picture. you can order a kit from GLAAD i believe. i
attempted with helium (under tired of living) so have some experience
now. the density point you bring up is interesting and i had not that
of that. i did feel panic and psychological it is strange with the
sound of gas flowing out in the room - like being in the gas chamber,
your body knows what it is doing to itself. there has been a
successful exit from an ASM member i heard about.

http://assistedsuicide.org/blog/2009/01/02/update-more-ways-to-get-the-heli=
um-hood-kits/comment-page-1/#comment-10877

i recommend reading the ASK wiki too about helium failures.

testtimony
07.08.2010 - 02:40
On 7 aoBt, 01:37, Ma Rodder <marod...@gmail.com> wrote:
there has been a
successful exit from an ASM member i heard about.

Who ?

"Camus & Nietzsche"
07.08.2010 - 06:59

There used to be a site on cluster headaches which talked about 100%
oxygen systems - because that is the only known completely effective
treatment for cluster headaches. It appears the site has reorganized
now, and they don't have all the information they used to.

The nitrogen enters the reservoir bag through an oxygen tubing
attachment on the end of the bag. The mask comes with 7 feet (2
metres) of tubing that attaches to the regulator. Really, the setup
is just like a 100% pure oxygen supply system, only the oxygen tank is
replaced with a nitrogen tank, and an adapter is used to change the
valve from the inert gas fitting to the oxygen tank style fitting so
it is compatible with the rest of the system. An oxygen regulator
works by having a diaphram that allows some set amount of gas to flow
at a specific rate - it works based on gas laws, and is not specific
to just oxygen, nitrogen works just as well with the regulator. I
know this because I've tested oxygen regulators with other gasses
before (dry runs). A note: never use an oxygen regulator with any
fittings containing petroleum based grease or lubricants, because it
ruins the internal diaphram of the regulator, turning it into junk. A
regulator ensures a constant flow at a specified rate, for normal
breathing, 12 to 15 Litres per minute is typical (the "minute volume")
- the regulator has a set screw that stretches the internal diaphram
to set a specific flow rate. I also researched a number of available
masks - the only other one that can guarantee near 100% concentration
is a mask used for SCUBA divers - however it is held in place by
biting down with teeth, which I figure would make it fall out when
consciousness is lost.

A total rebreather (as opposed to a non-rebreather) as used for SCUBA
is not a bad idea, although it would recycle the exhaled oxygen back
into the breathing circuit - making the concentration of oxygen higher
than would be desired, meaning you survive longer; however, in a
rebreather circuit, if you have a good scrubber with "soda
lime" (which gets rid of CO2) that is properly contained you recycle
the nitrogen back into the circuit, making the gas last almost
indefinitely. There are a few reasons I wouldn't use this, one being
that it would take longer to be effective (because of exhaled O2), and
also it is fairly cost prohibitive (a good mask that works as intended
costs upwards of $500). The cheap russian models are a bad idea, as
the scrubber has been known to leak into the circuit, causing a
caustic mix to be inhaled irritating the lining of the esophagus and
lungs (and could, lol, possibly kill you as your throat closes up).
Also, these masks are typically full face or helmet style models,
meaning if your claustrophobic this would cause you to panic and you
might as well just use an exit bag for the price.

I am seriously thinking of adding an exit bag that I first purge with
nitrogen, affix with a band, just to add some redundancy to the system
(then I could leave the safety vents unmodified on the mask), because
nitrogen atmosphere (which would be my exhaled air) would be
constantly replenishing the bag with nitrogen, forcing out any other
air that tries to seep in (because the bag would be at positive
pressure wrt atmosphere).

I don't like the idea of using an exit bag because I am very
claustrophobic, and having plastic on my face covering my eyes would
make me panic (even with a brimmed hat); however, if that's what it
takes to be successful, that's what I'll do. I've done a few dry runs
with a plastic bag over my head - and they were not fun - felt like I
was sweating bullets and moisture fogged up the bag, making me even
more nervous.

Here is a little line drawing to make the setup clearer:

Nitrogen Tank >=> CGA 580 to CGA 540 adapter >=> Oxygen Regulator (15
LPM) >=> Tubing >=> Reservoir Bag -> one way valve -> completely
closed mask -> one way valve -> atmosphere

Some masks have a safety valve which opens under significant negative
pressure in the mask to let atmosphere in.

I remember having obtained a PDF a long time ago of a suicide method
wiki - but I can't seem to find it anymore - anyone know where it's
hidden?

PS I'm looking for any possible faults in the system - if anyone knows
something I don't about this - please speak up.

Thank you for responding testtimony and Ma Rodder. I am now
considering adding an exit bag as a result of your replies.

Here is a picture (some random picture I found from bing, don't know
who the guy is): http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkohn/540774529/

Here is another example (though this one has a Y splitter for
nebulised medication in addition):
https://p11.secure.hostingprod.com/@www.ilauncher.com/ssl/product_preview/NRBMMedDelSys.html

The valve at the end of the reservoir bag is actually a T valve (in
cylindrical form) - and lets air in from reservoir, and exhaled air
out to atmosphere, the valves on either side of the nose are the
safety valves that open when significant negative pressure is
encountered (which I was thinking of forcing closed with duct tape).

"Peter Pan"
07.08.2010 - 07:36
"Camus & Nietzsche" <email@anonym; wrote in message
news:email@anonym...


I remember having obtained a PDF a long time ago of a suicide method
wiki - but I can't seem to find it anymore - anyone know where it's
hidden?


maybe this one? (first one was deleted, this is the new one.... link in the
text i am pasting)


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Whirister" <email@anonym;
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.methods
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:33 AM
Subject: ASH wiki returning


The ASH wiki is returning:

http://ash2.wikkii.com/

:-D

Please help with the pages. They need a lot of sourcing, spelling and
grammar fixups. Thanks again everyone.






testtimony
07.08.2010 - 13:05
On 7 aoBt, 06:59, "Camus & Nietzsche" <email@anonym;
wrote:
There used to be a site on cluster headaches which talked about 100%
oxygen systems - because that is the only known completely effective
treatment for cluster headaches. 0It appears the site has reorganized
now, and they don't have all the information they used to.

The nitrogen enters the reservoir bag through an oxygen tubing
attachment on the end of the bag. 0The mask comes with 7 feet (2
metres) of tubing that attaches to the regulator. 0Really, the setup
is just like a 100% pure oxygen supply system, only the oxygen tank is
replaced with a nitrogen tank, and an adapter is used to change the
valve from the inert gas fitting to the oxygen tank style fitting so
it is compatible with the rest of the system. 0An oxygen regulator
works by having a diaphram that allows some set amount of gas to flow
at a specific rate - it works based on gas laws, and is not specific
to just oxygen, nitrogen works just as well with the regulator. 0I
know this because I've tested oxygen regulators with other gasses
before (dry runs). 0A note: never use an oxygen regulator with any
fittings containing petroleum based grease or lubricants, because it
ruins the internal diaphram of the regulator, turning it into junk. 0A
regulator ensures a constant flow at a specified rate, for normal
breathing, 12 to 15 Litres per minute is typical (the "minute volume")
- the regulator has a set screw that stretches the internal diaphram
to set a specific flow rate. 0I also researched a number of available
masks - the only other one that can guarantee near 100% concentration
is a mask used for SCUBA divers - however it is held in place by
biting down with teeth, which I figure would make it fall out when
consciousness is lost.

A total rebreather (as opposed to a non-rebreather) as used for SCUBA
is not a bad idea, although it would recycle the exhaled oxygen back
into the breathing circuit - making the concentration of oxygen higher
than would be desired, meaning you survive longer; however, in a
rebreather circuit, if you have a good scrubber with "soda
lime" (which gets rid of CO2) that is properly contained you recycle
the nitrogen back into the circuit, making the gas last almost
indefinitely. 0There are a few reasons I wouldn't use this, one being
that it would take longer to be effective (because of exhaled O2), and
also it is fairly cost prohibitive (a good mask that works as intended
costs upwards of $500). 0The cheap russian models are a bad idea, as
the scrubber has been known to leak into the circuit, causing a
caustic mix to be inhaled irritating the lining of the esophagus and
lungs (and could, lol, possibly kill you as your throat closes up).
Also, these masks are typically full face or helmet style models,
meaning if your claustrophobic this would cause you to panic and you
might as well just use an exit bag for the price.

I am seriously thinking of adding an exit bag that I first purge with
nitrogen, affix with a band, just to add some redundancy to the system
(then I could leave the safety vents unmodified on the mask), because
nitrogen atmosphere (which would be my exhaled air) would be
constantly replenishing the bag with nitrogen, forcing out any other
air that tries to seep in (because the bag would be at positive
pressure wrt atmosphere).

I don't like the idea of using an exit bag because I am very
claustrophobic, and having plastic on my face covering my eyes would
make me panic (even with a brimmed hat); however, if that's what it
takes to be successful, that's what I'll do. 0I've done a few dry runs
with a plastic bag over my head - and they were not fun - felt like I
was sweating bullets and moisture fogged up the bag, making me even
more nervous.

Here is a little line drawing to make the setup clearer:

Nitrogen Tank >D> CGA 580 to CGA 540 adapter >D> Oxygen Regulator (15
LPM) >D> Tubing >D> Reservoir Bag -> one way valve -> completely
closed mask -> one way valve -> atmosphere

Some masks have a safety valve which opens under significant negative
pressure in the mask to let atmosphere in.

I remember having obtained a PDF a long time ago of a suicide method
wiki - but I can't seem to find it anymore - anyone know where it's
hidden?

PS I'm looking for any possible faults in the system - if anyone knows
something I don't about this - please speak up.

Thank you for responding testtimony and Ma Rodder. 0I am now
considering adding an exit bag as a result of your replies.

Here is a picture (some random picture I found from bing, don't know
who the guy is):http://www.flickr.com/photos/dkohn/540774529/

Here is another example (though this one has a Y splitter for
nebulised medication in addition):https://p11.secure.hostingprod.com/@www=
.ilauncher.com/ssl/product_pre...

The valve at the end of the reservoir bag is actually a T valve (in
cylindrical form) - and lets air in from reservoir, and exhaled air
out to atmosphere, the valves on either side of the nose are the
safety valves that open when significant negative pressure is
encountered (which I was thinking of forcing closed with duct tape).

Ok, but what happens when you stop breathing ? How the constant flow
entering the reservoir is managed ? I suppose the whole thing is
sufficiently complicated to handle that.

"Peter Pan"
07.08.2010 - 18:53
"Camus & Nietzsche" <email@anonym; wrote in message
news:email@anonym...


I am seriously thinking of adding an exit bag that I first purge with
nitrogen, affix with a band, just to add some redundancy to the system
(then I could leave the safety vents unmodified on the mask), because
nitrogen atmosphere (which would be my exhaled air) would be
constantly replenishing the bag with nitrogen, forcing out any other
air that tries to seep in (because the bag would be at positive
pressure wrt atmosphere).



if you are thinking large quantities of nitrogen, hate plastic on your face,
don't want to putz with neck bands, and have a place to get it, consider one
of these (video in action)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8c4qTDncEM

(water walker air filled bubble, has a zippered sealable entrance, seals
against water so bound to be sealed against air, just inflate it with
nitrogen instead of air, climb in and die)


"Peter Pan"
07.08.2010 - 19:09
"Peter Pan" <NotDeadYetNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote in message
news:Xs2dnW7y6K8tEsDRnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZemail@anonym...
"Camus & Nietzsche" <email@anonym; wrote in message
news:email@anonym...


I am seriously thinking of adding an exit bag that I first purge with
nitrogen, affix with a band, just to add some redundancy to the system
(then I could leave the safety vents unmodified on the mask), because
nitrogen atmosphere (which would be my exhaled air) would be
constantly replenishing the bag with nitrogen, forcing out any other
air that tries to seep in (because the bag would be at positive
pressure wrt atmosphere).



if you are thinking large quantities of nitrogen, hate plastic on your
face, don't want to putz with neck bands, and have a place to get it,
consider one of these (video in action)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8c4qTDncEM

(water walker air filled bubble, has a zippered sealable entrance, seals
against water so bound to be sealed against air, just inflate it with
nitrogen instead of air, climb in and die)



sort of on point for this group....
http://www.guzer.com/videos/water-walkers.php

love this comment

WhoCaresWhatYouThink Dec 16, 2008 4:26 AM 0


it is more fun to go out that way than a plastic bag over your head.


Ma Rodder
07.08.2010 - 22:57
On Aug 7, 10:090am, "Peter Pan" <NotDeadYetNOS...@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info>
wrote:
"Peter Pan" <NotDeadYetNOS...@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote in message

news:Xs2dnW7y6K8tEsDRnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZemail@anonym...





> "Camus & Nietzsche" <4n0n7m0...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>news:email@anonym...

>> I am seriously thinking of adding an exit bag that I first purge with
>> nitrogen, affix with a band, just to add some redundancy to the system
>> (then I could leave the safety vents unmodified on the mask), because
>> nitrogen atmosphere (which would be my exhaled air) would be
>> constantly replenishing the bag with nitrogen, forcing out any other
>> air that tries to seep in (because the bag would be at positive
>> pressure wrt atmosphere).

> if you are thinking large quantities of nitrogen, hate plastic on your
> face, don't want to putz with neck bands, and have a place to get it,
> consider one of these (video in action)...

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?vDM8c4qTDncEM

> (water walker air filled bubble, has a zippered sealable entrance, seal=
s
> against water so bound to be sealed against air, just inflate it with
> nitrogen instead of air, climb in and die)

sort of on point for this group....http://www.guzer.com/videos/water-walk=
ers.php

love this comment

WhoCaresWhatYouThink Dec 16, 2008 4:26 AM 0 0 0 0

it is more fun to go out that way than a plastic bag over your head.- Hid=
e quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

lol

"Peter Pan"
08.08.2010 - 02:19
"Ma Rodder" <email@anonym; wrote in message
news:email@anonym...
On Aug 7, 10:09 am, "Peter Pan" <NotDeadYetNOS...@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info>
wrote:
"Peter Pan" <NotDeadYetNOS...@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote in message

news:Xs2dnW7y6K8tEsDRnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZemail@anonym...





> "Camus & Nietzsche" <4n0n7m0...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>news:email@anonym...

>> I am seriously thinking of adding an exit bag that I first purge with
>> nitrogen, affix with a band, just to add some redundancy to the system
>> (then I could leave the safety vents unmodified on the mask), because
>> nitrogen atmosphere (which would be my exhaled air) would be
>> constantly replenishing the bag with nitrogen, forcing out any other
>> air that tries to seep in (because the bag would be at positive
>> pressure wrt atmosphere).

> if you are thinking large quantities of nitrogen, hate plastic on your
> face, don't want to putz with neck bands, and have a place to get it,
> consider one of these (video in action)...

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8c4qTDncEM

> (water walker air filled bubble, has a zippered sealable entrance, seals
> against water so bound to be sealed against air, just inflate it with
> nitrogen instead of air, climb in and die)

sort of on point for this
group....http://www.guzer.com/videos/water-walkers.php

love this comment

WhoCaresWhatYouThink Dec 16, 2008 4:26 AM 0

it is more fun to go out that way than a plastic bag over your head.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

lol


just because catching the bus is serious, doesn't mean you can't joke and
have fun... sides, some people remember funny things better than serious -
bet you will always think of that silly plastic ball you can stand in, when
someone talks about exit bags and plastic in your eyes (or a bag so flimsy
it rips)... (worked for me to remember this when he said bags rip or get in
your eyes)


"Camus & Nietzsche"
09.08.2010 - 06:17
Those balloons are very cool - that would be going out in style. I
might just get something like that, write my note on it's walls, make
for an interesting read. I could bring my Mp3 player in and listen to
dark side of the moon as I pass away. There are plenty of reports out
about people climbing in inflatable structures and dying from hypoxia
- so I'd guess it's a fairly reliable method.

Problem with the size though: I'd require (4/3)*pi*r^3 of inert gas -
for a 8 ft diameter balloon that's ~268 cu ft or 7,590 L - that's a
pretty big tank (268 cu ft * 14.7 psia / 2100 psi =~ 1.9 cu ft) - 2100
psi is standard for high pressure cylinders - I'm looking at T size
cylinder minimum - that would be BIG. Very difficult to hide from my
family, not to mention expensive.

I could see the questions now: So, what's this huge 5' tall cylinder
with nitrogen stickers doing in your room with this huge balloon? Ok,
um... PARTY!! yeah

@testtimony:

When the pressure in the mask is lower than the pressure in the
reservoir bag the valve opens relieving the pressure in the bag; and
when the pressure in the mask exceeds atmospheric pressure the
exhalation valve opens - it's really an ingenious system for 100% gas
delivery.

I talked with an EMT this weekend about respiratory care, he said they
use non-rebreathers all the time for people requiring 100% oxygen
delivery.

testtimony
09.08.2010 - 12:56
On 9 aoBt, 06:17, "Camus & Nietzsche" <4n0n7m0...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
@testtimony:

When the pressure in the mask is lower than the pressure in the
reservoir bag the valve opens relieving the pressure in the bag; and
when the pressure in the mask exceeds atmospheric pressure the
exhalation valve opens - it's really an ingenious system for 100% gas
delivery.

OK thanks, so if I get it correctly, the exhalation/safety valve has
two functions : first, release mask pressure to the atm, second allow
atm gases to enter the mask if pressure is too low in the mask. Or are
there two different valves, one safety, one exhalation ? You were
talking of taping the safety valves to forbid exterior gases to enter
the mask in the case of cylinder depletion. Isn't there a problem in
doing that, because when you'll stop breathing, how would the
overpressure in the reservoir+mask be managed ? Or again, are there
two different valves or types of valves ?




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